Imagine if we sugar coated women that undergo sexual abuse and rape. We’d be 100% in support of the women, no questions asked (well, hopefully, but more and more beta incel cucks are making their voices heard online).
People will ignore this issue just like they ignore climate change. We as activists have a role in making it so they can’t ignore these things
Are you actually comparing climate change to animal abuse? Lol
Holy SHIT the reading comprehension in this thread is subzero. I wasn’t COMPARING.
I was saying that HUMANS will ignore the reality in front of them if it means they can uphold their materialistic desires and wants. HUMANS will ignore climate change, genocide, animal abuse and slaughter, homelessness, whatever you want to put here. Many Western countries into today’s age are individualistic and selfish.
People aren’t ignoring climate change though, and I would generally think that’s because it’s an existential threat. You’re comparing apples and oranges.
Tell that to the people that voted in far-Right politicians in many of the Western countries in the last few years. Recognizing climate change, or animals rights for that matter, is not a value the Right holds.
You’re comparing apples and oranges.
Yes, once again you’re IGNORING the reason why I brought up climate change in this context. Why are deliberately misreading my arguments? Makes you seem disingenuous and acting in bad faith.
Our response to climate change will mean we need to change how we power our lives. People in Western countries by and large don’t want to change or be forced to adopt different habits. They want their desires met, whether that means gassing up their cars faster than it takes for EVs to charge, taking flights when rail or road based transit would work, or using more and more Artificial Intelligence to do things for them that they have the ability to do already (driving up grid costs exponentially). When talking about consumption of these things in the economy, trends don’t show decreasing consumption. More people on the planet use more, and this is not to even begin talking about phenomena like the Jevons paradox.
With animals rights, we’re now talking about taking meat, pork, chicken, lamb, fish, etc. off the menu. New alternatives for dishes will need to be found, or existing dishes will need to be converted to use non-animal plant-based foods. People will need to change their habits if alternatives aren’t found, which is the less preferable option. Once again, humans on the whole don’t like change, so there will be a resistance here to changing diets. People will find all the excuses in the world to fend off change.
The behavioral antics humans display in the face of climate change and animal rights, or better put in the face of people’s habits and lifestyles changing as a result of climate change and animal rights (if the latter is ever possible), are the same. The CAUSES that ELICIT the behaviors can be different.
Also I think even if they want to make the most forfecul point possible, I don’t think talking about consent is the greatest thing.
Should really impress the fact that they’re won’t produce milk unless they’ve been pregnant. So dairy cows are kept pregnant as much as possible. They live like five years then collapse of exhaustion and get carted to the slaughterhouse.
The cows my late grandma tended to in her youth lived like 20 years.
Industrial intensive farming is immoral as fuck but I can’t really pretend like the cow understands sexual assault.
Its also an insult to actual rape victims to equate artificial insemination of a cow with rape. Just using their real suffering as propaganda to push an agenda
First two questions: False equivalency, I am not livestock.
Last question: It’s interesting that you have such extreme views without seeming to know anything about it. You should probably inform yourself and learn something about dairy, before choosing an extreme and naive conviction. I know the cows do not resist because they are artificially inseminated while in estrus.
Your application of false equivalency here just cements my idea of you. You’re egocentric and anthropocentrist, and only care about the human species for moral consideration. You’re no different to me than the fascists in power the world over that seek to dominate minority groups.
Cows have a variety of responses to being artificially inseminated. Because of this, farmers have adopted different tactics to force them to submit, whether that’s using drugs, stun guns, cages that don’t allow the cows to flee. Whether cows resist, which is possible, or they submit doesn’t matter. They are still raped at the end of the day.
If YOU know so much about the dairy industry, then you either know the answers to this debate and choose to ignore them because it makes you look bad, or you ignore the reality altogether and tell yourself bedtime stories to cope with your already existing immoral habits.
You’re no different to me than the fascists in power the world over that seek to dominate minority groups.
Yep, gotta make everything black and white in order to process the world. Very healthy “if you eat dairy you’re a fascist” 😂 It’s at that ridiculous statement that someone capable of self reflection would realize they are wrong. Your childish naivety is showing.
Well that’s ironic, given that you just tried to say I stated “cows experience no real suffering”, which is obviously ridiculous… probably another thing you should stop doing if you want people to support your side or take you seriously.
I mean I would say they probably don’t know because they aren’t sapient, but sure.
You aren’t going to change industrialized factory farming abuse by berating and lecturing people on Lemmy. People are just going to be more annoyed by your cause. I don’t even entirely disagree with you, to be honest.
No, I’m not going to change my messaging. There are many other vegans both on Lemmy, on social media, and IRL that probably have different messaging than me in this one instance. Hell, I probably will have different messaging from post to post and conversation to conversation.
But in my opinion, this conversation violates my beliefs so much that I need to retaliate.
If you have something you care about, let me see how you react. “The live streamed Holocaust in Gaza right now isn’t bad because the Palestinians want this”. I’m not sure if you’re for or against Palestinian resistance, but if you take the thinking in this thread and apply it elsewhere, it’s fucking psychotic.
How do we know cows have no conception of rape? Or no conception of when their children, right after being born, are taken away from them, never to be seen again?
Just like we know there’s no teacup orbiting Saturn.
Are there biological imperatives for them to protect their calves? Absolutely. That doesn’t mean they’re cognisant of “never being able to see their children again”. They don’t have a concept of “never”.
I’m willing to change my mind if you wrangle up some evidence of superintelligent bovines.
How do you know they’re not cognizant? Where’s your evidence for that claim?
It’s funny how if you choose to go vegan, you avoid this moral dilemma altogether. But of course you carnists and omnis fantasize realities that shift blame away from you.
Remember: it is you that enables the animal slave industry to exist, even the subsidies from the government that prop up this immoral industry. Voting with your ballet and wallet to end this unethical enslavement is the bare minimum to call yourself an “empathetic” human.
Try telling that to the fascist Israelis committing a live stream Holocaust.
People are either receptive or not. Activists can choose how to communicate their message. Just because it doesn’t work for you, that doesn’t mean it won’t work for others.
… in threads like this, people like you always get downvoted, and people saying spreading the message via exaggeration doesn’t work gets upvoted. Unless you think the only people who matter don’t vote, the data (and common sense) is against you.
You cite data. What’s your data that proves that singular attack vectors at persuading populations works best, compared to multiple vectors?
And what common sense? Eating meat, and using animals in general for our purposes, is serving as one of the largest contributors to climate change, to water overuse, to nitrogen and fertilizer runoff that kills ocean life, to heart disease (red meat specifically), and to cancer (UN classifies red meat as a carcinogen).
Seems to me that your “common sense” is willful ignorance at the pleasure of others’ suffering, both on an acute and obtuse level.
I do agree with you that this is common. Most societies today are not vegan. Hell, most aren’t pro-Palestinian, or at least the governments aren’t. That latter example is changing, thankfully.
I wasn’t comparing. The person before me made a generalized statement. I used an example to contradict their statement.
Besides, the technology that came out of the Holocaust, gas chambers, without a doubt is used on a large scale today in exterminating domesticated animals. See this trailer for a documentary whose creator place cameras inside a pig gas chamber.
And fuck you. Let me guess, you’re someone who doesn’t compared the Holocaust to what’s happening in Palestine because it isn’t 1-to-1
They have got a point. You know what they mean. People will ignore you if you push your narrative too far, in their opinion
Let’s ignore all protestors because they’re annoying I’m sure fossil fuels and Israel would be very pleased with your comment 🤪
There’s quite literally no other way to put it.
Imagine if we sugar coated women that undergo sexual abuse and rape. We’d be 100% in support of the women, no questions asked (well, hopefully, but more and more beta incel cucks are making their voices heard online).
People will ignore this issue just like they ignore climate change. We as activists have a role in making it so they can’t ignore these things
Are you actually comparing climate change to animal abuse? Lol
At the very least I’d say people are significantly more aware and receptive to climate change.
Holy SHIT the reading comprehension in this thread is subzero. I wasn’t COMPARING.
I was saying that HUMANS will ignore the reality in front of them if it means they can uphold their materialistic desires and wants. HUMANS will ignore climate change, genocide, animal abuse and slaughter, homelessness, whatever you want to put here. Many Western countries into today’s age are individualistic and selfish.
People aren’t ignoring climate change though, and I would generally think that’s because it’s an existential threat. You’re comparing apples and oranges.
Tell that to the people that voted in far-Right politicians in many of the Western countries in the last few years. Recognizing climate change, or animals rights for that matter, is not a value the Right holds.
Yes, once again you’re IGNORING the reason why I brought up climate change in this context. Why are deliberately misreading my arguments? Makes you seem disingenuous and acting in bad faith.
Our response to climate change will mean we need to change how we power our lives. People in Western countries by and large don’t want to change or be forced to adopt different habits. They want their desires met, whether that means gassing up their cars faster than it takes for EVs to charge, taking flights when rail or road based transit would work, or using more and more Artificial Intelligence to do things for them that they have the ability to do already (driving up grid costs exponentially). When talking about consumption of these things in the economy, trends don’t show decreasing consumption. More people on the planet use more, and this is not to even begin talking about phenomena like the Jevons paradox.
With animals rights, we’re now talking about taking meat, pork, chicken, lamb, fish, etc. off the menu. New alternatives for dishes will need to be found, or existing dishes will need to be converted to use non-animal plant-based foods. People will need to change their habits if alternatives aren’t found, which is the less preferable option. Once again, humans on the whole don’t like change, so there will be a resistance here to changing diets. People will find all the excuses in the world to fend off change.
The behavioral antics humans display in the face of climate change and animal rights, or better put in the face of people’s habits and lifestyles changing as a result of climate change and animal rights (if the latter is ever possible), are the same. The CAUSES that ELICIT the behaviors can be different.
Because I said “animal rape?” How dare I state blatantly where the beloved dairy products come from, the horror!
So you do know what the incorrect and absurd exaggeration was, after all.
I’m with this guy.
Also I think even if they want to make the most forfecul point possible, I don’t think talking about consent is the greatest thing.
Should really impress the fact that they’re won’t produce milk unless they’ve been pregnant. So dairy cows are kept pregnant as much as possible. They live like five years then collapse of exhaustion and get carted to the slaughterhouse.
The cows my late grandma tended to in her youth lived like 20 years.
Industrial intensive farming is immoral as fuck but I can’t really pretend like the cow understands sexual assault.
They don’t have to “understand it” they feel it. Stop defending the rape of cows.
Its also an insult to actual rape victims to equate artificial insemination of a cow with rape. Just using their real suffering as propaganda to push an agenda
Good point.
Have you ever been forcefully impregnated before?
Have you even had your recent new born separated from you and made orphan?
Just because the sexual act isn’t between the same species, and because the subordinate doesn’t resist, doesn’t make it any more wrong.
And how do you know that cows DON’T resist being artificially inseminated? How do you know you can generalize?
First two questions: False equivalency, I am not livestock.
Last question: It’s interesting that you have such extreme views without seeming to know anything about it. You should probably inform yourself and learn something about dairy, before choosing an extreme and naive conviction. I know the cows do not resist because they are artificially inseminated while in estrus.
Your application of false equivalency here just cements my idea of you. You’re egocentric and anthropocentrist, and only care about the human species for moral consideration. You’re no different to me than the fascists in power the world over that seek to dominate minority groups.
Cows have a variety of responses to being artificially inseminated. Because of this, farmers have adopted different tactics to force them to submit, whether that’s using drugs, stun guns, cages that don’t allow the cows to flee. Whether cows resist, which is possible, or they submit doesn’t matter. They are still raped at the end of the day.
If YOU know so much about the dairy industry, then you either know the answers to this debate and choose to ignore them because it makes you look bad, or you ignore the reality altogether and tell yourself bedtime stories to cope with your already existing immoral habits.
Yep, gotta make everything black and white in order to process the world. Very healthy “if you eat dairy you’re a fascist” 😂 It’s at that ridiculous statement that someone capable of self reflection would realize they are wrong. Your childish naivety is showing.
It’s hard to express how weird a statement this is…
You’re stating cows experience no “real” suffering, which is verifiably false.
I had you tagged as “confidently incorrect” for some reason from a long time ago, so thanks for confirming that’s still valid.
That’s describes them accurately.
Well that’s ironic, given that you just tried to say I stated “cows experience no real suffering”, which is obviously ridiculous… probably another thing you should stop doing if you want people to support your side or take you seriously.
Does the victim have to understand sexual assault in order for an action to be so?
How do we know that cows DON’T understand it???
Holy SHIT the speciesism on this post is RAMPANT
I mean I would say they probably don’t know because they aren’t sapient, but sure.
You aren’t going to change industrialized factory farming abuse by berating and lecturing people on Lemmy. People are just going to be more annoyed by your cause. I don’t even entirely disagree with you, to be honest.
No, I’m not going to change my messaging. There are many other vegans both on Lemmy, on social media, and IRL that probably have different messaging than me in this one instance. Hell, I probably will have different messaging from post to post and conversation to conversation.
But in my opinion, this conversation violates my beliefs so much that I need to retaliate.
If you have something you care about, let me see how you react. “The live streamed Holocaust in Gaza right now isn’t bad because the Palestinians want this”. I’m not sure if you’re for or against Palestinian resistance, but if you take the thinking in this thread and apply it elsewhere, it’s fucking psychotic.
😂🤡
Thanks for showing us all how much of a clown YOU are
deleted by creator
I think it’s more about the vaginal penetration that this vegan is talking about than fondling some nipples, but the point still stands, yeah.
How do we know cows have no conception of rape? Or no conception of when their children, right after being born, are taken away from them, never to be seen again?
Just like we know there’s no teacup orbiting Saturn.
Are there biological imperatives for them to protect their calves? Absolutely. That doesn’t mean they’re cognisant of “never being able to see their children again”. They don’t have a concept of “never”.
I’m willing to change my mind if you wrangle up some evidence of superintelligent bovines.
How do you know they’re not cognizant? Where’s your evidence for that claim?
It’s funny how if you choose to go vegan, you avoid this moral dilemma altogether. But of course you carnists and omnis fantasize realities that shift blame away from you.
Remember: it is you that enables the animal slave industry to exist, even the subsidies from the government that prop up this immoral industry. Voting with your ballet and wallet to end this unethical enslavement is the bare minimum to call yourself an “empathetic” human.
I don’t know if I should or the one to tell you this, but the milking itself isn’t the rape they’re referring to.
The rape has nothing to do with the utters.
Please 🙏 do your own research here
Apparently it doesn’t bother you that you make veganism look bad since you chose to be sarcastic like that. You’re actively preventing veganism
Are you a vegan?
If not, who are you to say you know what’s best for our movement?
Activism from all sides is important to the cause. You downplaying this Lemming’s activism is serving to silence their voice
If anyone would know best, it’d be someone you’re trying to convince. Shit take
Try telling that to the fascist Israelis committing a live stream Holocaust.
People are either receptive or not. Activists can choose how to communicate their message. Just because it doesn’t work for you, that doesn’t mean it won’t work for others.
Exactly watch all these carnists act like they understand activism than the actual vegans.
… in threads like this, people like you always get downvoted, and people saying spreading the message via exaggeration doesn’t work gets upvoted. Unless you think the only people who matter don’t vote, the data (and common sense) is against you.
You cite data. What’s your data that proves that singular attack vectors at persuading populations works best, compared to multiple vectors?
And what common sense? Eating meat, and using animals in general for our purposes, is serving as one of the largest contributors to climate change, to water overuse, to nitrogen and fertilizer runoff that kills ocean life, to heart disease (red meat specifically), and to cancer (UN classifies red meat as a carcinogen).
Seems to me that your “common sense” is willful ignorance at the pleasure of others’ suffering, both on an acute and obtuse level.
I do agree with you that this is common. Most societies today are not vegan. Hell, most aren’t pro-Palestinian, or at least the governments aren’t. That latter example is changing, thankfully.
Common sense is when you come at people like this, they don’t listen. That’s why I won’t read your comments and probably no one else will either.
Speedrun comparing anti-veganism to the Holocaust any% WR
I wasn’t comparing. The person before me made a generalized statement. I used an example to contradict their statement.
Besides, the technology that came out of the Holocaust, gas chambers, without a doubt is used on a large scale today in exterminating domesticated animals. See this trailer for a documentary whose creator place cameras inside a pig gas chamber.
And fuck you. Let me guess, you’re someone who doesn’t compared the Holocaust to what’s happening in Palestine because it isn’t 1-to-1
Nah, I’m pro Palestine. I just think comparing the genocide to animal slaughter is a little tone deaf.