Fuck. Im in a hot area but not zone 10-12 hot.

Oh so you just don’t like the show. Got it. /s

How so?

TLDR “liberalism”. We need educate the working class and use democracy to enforce regulation on the economy and transparency in our government. Scarcity is the driving force behind capitalism. We need to deal with that first. Violent revolution will only traumatize society further from the culture of socialism.

A contextless example with no direct connection to 99% of other issues?

1. Explain how your cherry picked example directly translates to other industries.

2. Explain how that would scale from a small region to sustaining a population of millions

3. What is your evidence that the main detractor to efficiency is bureaucracy?

4. Why would people if office jobs go work on fields?

Like bruh this is literally the level of thinking MAGA put before essentially allowing ICE to deport half their workers.

Transitioning away from capitalism involves peoples lives… like millions to billions of them. Rational, empathetic people, will not join you in a revolution that could potentially cause more suffering than the status quo.

Please understand. I can envision a path beyond capitalism. It’s the vast majority of leftists/libertarian housecats who fail to inspire confidence.

Good. Someone has to wrench back control of the Overton Window.

Seizing is a lot easier than managing.

It would be hard for a feudal peasant or lord to envision a capitalist society.

And even harder, some might say impossible, for either of us to know what someone 500 years ago was thinking or could comprehend. The argument appeals to our ignorance as evidence of it’s merit.

Except I didn’t just point out the fallacies. So you’re wrong.

Assumptions are not logical fallacies.

That entire FAQ is a hodge podge of logical fallacies; apparently written by someone who’s read lots of 20th century history books but has zero understanding of real life civics.

That’s the mantra of those who are working up the nerve to be really nasty themselves.

Calling everyone who disagrees closet-oppressors is an ad hominim not an argument.

If we were powerful enough to overthrow one government, we would be powerful enough to prevent the ascendance of another,

That’s a hasty generalization that US interventions abroad patently disproves.

not another formalized power structure, but cooperative relationships that can meet our needs while keeping new would-be rulers at bay.

That’s just reinventing the wheel. Relationships need to be formalized in order to consistently deliver at scale. Likewise power structures inherently exist because of the would-be rulers.

no one can imagine creating a stateless society, though many of the problems we face will not be solved any other way.

This is an appeal to ignorance on multiple levels.

ftfy

There’s a difference between capitalism and just having markets and money, to be fair.

I mean this sincerely, because I don’t know everything about economics. Is it?

No it is not.

Currency is 3000 years old. Money and Markets preexist the capitalist system.

A core concept of Karl Max book was how local markets can influence prices in distant markets; resulting famine due to prices not availability. That was his literal moral justification for regulating the economy.

I agree with all of that.

One problem is leftists call this take “liberalism” and conflate it with full on fascism.

I would be more open to discussions about “replacing” capitalism… if the people suggesting it didn’t expect the rest of us to figure out what to replace it with.

It’s also a terrible argument since hunter gatherer societies largely avoided conflict due to humans being so sparse. It was simply much, much, easier to move on than to fight prior to the agricultural revolution.

Meanwhile we have archeological evidence of subsistence marauders from the stone age. They found a village that lacked contemporary agriculture. It also had a mass grave of victims who had been killed violently but their deaths spanned over a decade.

A democracy sucks, but it’s the best option there is.

Democracy is a terrible form of government; until you consider the alternatives.

Removed by mod

Bernie style.

Socialism and capitalism aren’t diametrically opposed. Functionally socialism is just capitalism + egalitarianism. If capitalism can go to the moon… socialism prevents everyone from drowning. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

I agree that socialism “doesn’t scale”, but that’s due to the nature of markets. TLDR you simply cannot trade globally without the mechanics of capitalism coming into play. Like the beginning section of Karl Marx book was explaining how the economics of one region could directly cause a famine in a completely separate region.

IMO communism will only work in a society that enacts it peacefully. A violent revolution inevitably costs skilled individuals and inherently creates detractors. 90% of the challenges in a capitalist society will still exist in a communist one. The less traumatic the transition the better positioned society is for immediate success.

So you feel entitled to demand society be torn down but not a crumb of responsibility to build it again?

I can agree that something close to communism is the ideal government. But not if it’s run by incompetent or corrupt people. It would be akin to what we saw in post-exit Afghanistan, with clueless gun toting buffoons holding civic offices.

do you need your brain checked?

Grow up.