subversive_dev

There’s no lately…the communities of people who actually oppose Western imperialism have been building Lemmy for 6 years, 3 years before the API protests

You actually believe that real governments pay real money for people to post here on lemmy?

No, it isn’t in any treaty that NATO won’t accept new countries in the east.

Right, I never claimed that it was. Saying “well the US promised but they didn’t get it in a treaty haha” is…not the own you think it is?

Well I and a lot of countries don’t agree with the premise that the big countries should decide all amongst themselves.

In your view do the EU and NATO support this vision of national liberation and non-interference in internal affairs in practice? Sounds like you might be a Baltic resident - do you feel like you have independence from French and German national politics or…not?

Of course trump is Putin’s wet dream in that he also leans in that direction of thinking but NATO and the west are not built like that and have a lot in place to check the big players. We will see how much trump well take the us in another direction.

If NATO somehow limps its way to the other side of the Trump administration after years of economic suicide…

Also keeping someone out is not harming them. It simply means they are the aggressor that we have to prepare for and defend against if they come.

I think this is a pretty naive and ahistorical view of international relations. Great powers don’t think like that. Also, you’re failing to consider what happened before 2022 if you want to really understand the other side of the argument.

The millions of Russians that fled the country disagree with your points.

Strange argument. What about the Ukrainians that have fled the country, does that condemn the government there?

Listen. Do you support the democrats against Trump? Of course you don’t

Trump! What a complex case. First off since you are addressing me personally I will tell you that your assumption is incorrect and I supported Kamala in the general. HOWEVER - assessing Trump’s second term from a materialist perspective has many twists and turns. I would sum it up this way: Trump is clearly the most incompetent and openly fascist president in US history. BUT this is having the effect of RAPIDLY dismantling every single pillar of US imperialism - the Dollar, the alliances, the military, the trade networks, the exploited labor of undocumented immigrants. You know that MLs call him JDPON Don right?

But why, it’s aligning with imperfect allies (neoliberals) against the greater foe (nationalist capitalist conservatives)?

Again speaking personally I have and do align with neoliberals in the very narrow space where they can be trusted (Human rights sometimes? Labor rights sometimes?). They are very imperfect allies and always have been.

I don’t have to support states.

I agree with this principle

I can already see you typing “but what about Ukraine” and my answer is, I don’t support Ukraine. I support the people in their war against an invader

So here is where we are working off different facts I think. Do you believe that Euromaidan was a right-wing coup sponsored by the US? Everyone knows that they banned the use of the Russian language (I know they reversed it after). Do you believe that the Ukrainians were all too happy to send Neo-Nazi paramilitaries like the Azov Brigade against civilians in Eastern Ukraine in the years before 2022?

Do you believe Israel should be allowed to invade Palestine? Of course you don’t, because you’re not that monsterish. But, using your analogy, they should have the right to invade Palestine.

Right so I regard the entire modern history of the “State of Israel” as illegitimate settler colonial oppression. Therefore I support violent and nonviolent resistance to the land theft and ongoing genocide. By contrast, given the history and the context I have “critical support” for the Russians in their goal to halt Eastward NATO expansion and stop the expulsion of ethnic/linguistic Russians from the Donbas. I’m not saying I particularly like the current government of Russia (I don’t) but just like with Trump I support their efforts to dismantle the Western imperial bloc.

The key is, once again, the people. We can be in solidarity with the people as opposed to states. We can support actual grassroots resistance without being simps for the state. It gets clearer once you understand that democracy is a myth. And that countries don’t act out of the people’s word.

I think this is again where we are working from different facts. I happen to believe that actually existing Leninist states can and have improved the lives of the people with universal health care and education, land reform, state-owned industries etc. Even Western sources are forced to concede these points to some extent. Perhaps this is the core of our disagreement. Once again, I’m willing to go source-for-source with you if that is where this is headed.

But I believe you think this has already happened, and I haven’t seen any proof.

Wait do we have to dig in on this one? The Euromaidan coup was literally and plainly funded by NED and the freshly installed parliament literally banned the Russian language - are these disputed facts in this context?

Predicting the US is getting harder each day, but they probably wouldn’t waste hours. IDK here. Canada has already done so much shit to its indigenous nations, so many war crimes that don’t get talked about… Did the US intervene back then? Of course they wouldn’t, the self-determination is not the point of any superpower. Also, the same as above.

I think maybe you are missing the point of this analogy but I think we agree on the end facts? Just going to leave it be.

honestly agree with this take. Liberalism has become a religion. Worse than a religion, a cult of capital, in fact. And it also views all deviations that are deviated as authoritarian. But that’s because it doesn’t know about less authoritarian socialist and communist movements, mainly thanks to the influence of the burgeoisie.

Ok, honestly off to a very agreeable start. It sounds like we agree about the class system and the secondary systems that uphold it.

Only dumbfuck right-“libertarians” say that taxing the rich is authoritarian. You will soon discover that they care more about property than any other freedom, that’s what capitalism is based upon after all. Also, they tend to believe in hierarchies, at least explicitly from the point they decide to take Hoppe seriously. You can call them liberals for all you want though, the waters are muddy here.

I agree that few people actually explicitly say we shouldn’t tax the rich, that line of argument has fallen very far out of fashion. Some especially pedantic Libertarians like Russ Roberts call themselves “Classical Liberals” but I agree that the lines get blurred. What I am saying is that any time something like a wealth tax comes up in the public discourse, the argument that is made is essentially “taxing the rich is authoritarian” but with a few layers of indirection and insinuation to obscure the bones of the argument.

We can’t have communism as long as people like Stalin and Mao keep showing up and promising us communism, whilst delivering state capitalism instead. Communism is a classless, moneyless, stateless society, or the pursuit of it; MLs and relateds do pursuit by strengthening the state, creating a political class and not abolishing currency. It’s not logical.

So that makes you a Trotskyist or Ultraleftist? Does that mean in your view the USSR and the PRC are functionally equivalent to the Capitalist/Imperialist states? I want to understand if that’s your position before engaging with it.

or just… invading them? did you forget the original talking point was full on invasion? You’re intentionally weakening your point, and for what?

Well I was talking about “manufacturing consent” specifically but the imperial powers are certainly not above invasion.

MLism and related is WMINO - worker movement in name only.

This is a deep rabbit hole and we can trade facts and figures if you like but before diving in perhaps we can swerve away: Do you literally believe that the working class is no better off in ML/AES states than in the imperial Western states and their neocolonies?

You get jailed for not working

I’d love a source for this one, it sounds like Red Scare silliness to me.

When and where was it promised that NATO wouldn’t accept candidates from the east?

This was done by James Baker, US Secretary of state in 1990:

“there would be no extension of NATO’s jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east”

Russia wants it’s area of influence ie hold power over other smaller countries.

Yes, this is a universal feature of great power geopolitics going back centuries.

Russia still thinks the big players decide everything amongst themselves. They think the us decides everything that happens in NATO alone. The us isn’t the dictator that controls NATO.

LOL who could even argue otherwise after the utter humiliation of US treaty allies in recent tariff agreements?

The only thing Russia has left is the information war

Well that and also winning the land war and the economic war…do you really not see what is going on?

NATO enlargement hasn’t done any real harm to Russia

Ok first of all this is a direct quote from the first secretary general of NATO from the literal website:

[the purpose of NATO is to] "keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.”

The Soviets applied to join NATO in 1954 but they were denied. Also NATO bombed Yugoslavia in the 90s.

So yes, if it was exactly like you say that concept is called “critical support”. It is possible and often necessary to align with imperfect allies against the greater foe.

However, since we are in the Europe comm I assume you are implicitly alluding to the Ukrainian conflict. Once you believe that Russia is allowed to have national security interests, the whole conflict is quite cut and dry. In the decades since the fall of the Soviet Union, The West has repeatedly promised that NATO would not expand East, and has repeatedly broken that promise. Would you trust the West? What if a right-wing government took over in a Western-backed coup and banned the use of the Russian language, while making overtures to join NATO?

This analogy is imperfect but imagine if the Quebecois seized power in Canada and banned the use of English, while also trying to join the SCO quasi-alliance. Do you think the US would wax poetic about self-determination or would we immediately see Abrams tanks rolling north?

Okay fun! Let’s see if I get banned.

The state religion of the West is known as Liberalism. This ideology has an insufferably self-righteous view of itself, like all religions. In this framing, only liberalism can be the path to good, and all other ideologies are flavors of the dreaded Authoritarianism™

In this way, liberalism becomes Capital’s perfect shield against all criticism or worse yet class consciousness. We can’t tax the rich, that would be authoritarian! The “Liberty” of the ownership class is the top priority, and the material concerns of the working class should barely even be spoken of.

The crown jewel of this system is media control, also known as “manufacturing consent”. We can’t have scary gommunism because Stalin and Mao killed a hundred bajillion people, I read about it in my trusted national news sources. The modern tactic is to “spread democracy” by pouring money into reactionary elements through well-known CIA cutouts like NED. This is known as a color revolution and wait for the best part! Either the color revolution succeeds and overthrows a government that prioritizes the working class over capital, OR the color revolution fails and we have a new slander to plaster across the media!

Once you stop caring about the “Liberty” of the capital class and start counting coups you might have a different understanding about what freedom actually means. Is it freedom to have to work for the capital class day in and day out or else your family will starve?

Found Noam Chomsky’s secret hexbear account

In my experience, the powermods on the Liberal comms are extremely incapable of telling the difference

Critics of Western imperialism literally built Lemmy

In the classic baseball sex analogy, a home run is full intercourse. There is a progression of bases 1 through 3 on the way to home plate, different people will call different foreplay sex acts different base numbers.

The joke here is that the poster is calling being vulnerable enough to show a potential partner their panicked state is equivalent to the level of foreplay immediately before intercourse.

Hope this helps and/or ruined the joke

Trans affirming dad joke - life goals

Eth supposedly solved this problem with proof of stake

For 200 bucks an hour

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