I know it’s unpopular to withhold my vote from Democrats, but that’s my line and I’ll stick to it.
Cool, so basically repeating what happened in November. No nuance, single issue voter.
Go ahead and blame people who care about genocide rather than the party who has twice run absolute shit candidates (Hilary and Biden; Kamala was lacking, but at least better than they) against a fascist tyrant. I still voted against him, but I’m sure you’ll find a way to blame me for our sorry state of affairs just for wanting more from the competition.
I just said what happened, didn’t say anything else.
Blame can be shared. It’s absolutely true that the Democrats like to run shit candidates, because Washington is a putrefying swamp of corruption and very few people who work there give a shit what happens to anyone let alone brown people halfway across the world. It’s also true that people who talk mainly about “refusing to vote for Democrats” thinking that’s going to be a useful strategy for improving anything are making the problem worse.
It’s not an either-or thing, where the first thing absolves someone of blame for the second. Just because the smoke alarms don’t work… doesn’t mean, the person setting fires on purpose, that all of a sudden it’s not his fault that the building’s currently on fire.
I see this issue as fundamentally connected to all the other issues I care about. If I can’t get them to stop supporting Israel, I won’t get anything else I want.
What are the other issues you care about?
Because personally I see Israel as a side effect of the other issues I care about.
I don’t think we’re going to make much headway trying to just tackle the Israel problem on its own.
However if we can put a dent in the military industrial complex and reduce global dependence on petroleum, having an “ally” like israel in the middle east starts looking a lot less attractive. Israel can only do so much without the US backing them up unconditionally, and once the government and arms manufacturers stop caring so much about them it becomes easier to turn the tides of public opinion and get the government to reverse course.
As long as there’s money to be made in the middle east, we’re not going to get the people in power to reverse course on Israel. We need to change the world around them so that it no longer makes sense to support them.
You actually sound like you care about what’s happening. I’m glad you’re here.
And I’m glad that your heart is in the right place, but your brain absolutely is not. You’re playing at some naive, idealistic version of politics that’s going to prevent us from making the changes we need to to turn the tides against Israel.
Sometimes, unfortunately, you have to hold your nose and vote for a candidate who kind of stinks to make sure we’re not getting something even worse.
Sometimes, unfortunately, you have to hold your nose and vote for a candidate who kind of stinks to make sure we’re not getting something even worse.
If people still haven’t accepted this, given what’s currently happening, then I don’t think they ever will.
But we know firsthand that strategy doesn’t work. We tried it less than a year ago, and wound up with a fascist soon-to-be-dictator who is also pedal-to-the-medal on Israel’s genocide, going so far as to arrest, imprison, and deport people for criticizing Israel.
When both possible outcomes of an election are equally terrible for Palestinians, but one of the possibilities is worse than the other in virtually every other aspect, it makes no sense to have Israel-Palestine be the deciding factor. Not voting for one of the two possible outcomes is just taking your hands off the wheel and letting someone else decide for you.
I’m surprised this needs to be explained every time.
A two party system sucks - and we all should work to change it - but in the interim, if we could avoid electing literal Nazis, that’d be great.
Jesus, take the wheel!!!
car crash
I think we should be pushing on this as early as possible. I won’t be convinced to issue a blank check to any Democratic candidate.
We know this strategy is a failing one
Let’s just start sooner
This is my circle is called “magical thinking”
In their defense, 3.5 years before the next election is the time to start trying to push for better candidates. If we end up with “will slap you in the face” vs “will shoot you in the face” again though, voting for the slap is obviously the smarter move.
I’m disgusted by most of the current Democratic party, but they’re an order of magnitude less disgusting than literally any of the Republicans, so when it comes down to it, I’ll hold my nose and vote for the party that has a mathematical possibility of winning and is less gross.
So … not voting then?
I think they intend to vote for canidates that don’t support genocide.
Which is totally realistic and not impossible as bootlickers pretend it is.
Glad you have the luxury. Meanwhile, “I will never through inaction let someone come to power who wants to torture or expel anyone who opposes him, and also supports Israel way more and has been overseeing Americans directly participating in war crimes instead of just standing on the side giving weapons, and also is opposed to fighting climate change among many other horrifying outcomes” is over on the sidelines, neglected.
And in the meantime people are dying both in Gaza (at an accelerated pace) and in CECOT, and in Louisiana, and soon, in your town. Quite soon.
So you’re enabling Republicans who actively want the genocide because it will speed up the end times. Got it.
If we push on this early enough, we can get better candidates and/or policies.
Can’t get better candidates if you don’t vote for the better of the two.
Stepping out and allowing the worst to win is a race to the bottom.
How’s that been working so far?
The American left has been refusing to vote for Democrats because they are not left enough since 1972, roughly speaking. Has it pulled the Democrats to the left yet?
That would be great, if it were true… See you in about 3 years when we still have shit candidates
You should not judge someone only on one criteria. Genocide in Gaza is much much better than genocide in Gaza and poor economy, deteriorating democracy, etc.
Don’t forget climate change and justice for working people.
Oh, and attempted genocide in Ukraine.
Oh, and also, that one of the central problems the Democrats have is that their consultants constantly lie to them about what will work to win elections, what the American people think, what policies are “popular” and things like that. The idea that if we just keep not voting for them, they’ll figure it out and stop supporting genocide so they can win elections again, is incredibly unlikely. All the Palestinians will be dead before it works. It is mired in a kind of “my only input to the system is voting” mindset which is pretty much guaranteed to failure. Very few people in Washington give a shit if people stop voting as a “protest” movement or w/e, they love it, it helps them consolidate their hold on power with even less input from the humane segments of the public.
If you wanted justice for Palestinian people there are about 50 things on the list that you could take vigorous action on that would produce some measurable chance of good outcomes, whereas with these guys it always seems to begin and end with not voting for Democrats. The only impact of which will be an increase in suffering and death of which there was already no shortage at all.
