cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/46045941
“We need a reality check. Otherwise we are heading at full speed against a wall,” Mercedes chief executive Ola Kaellenius told the Handelsblatt business daily of the 2035 goal, adding that Europe’s car market could “collapse” if it goes ahead.
Reality is that we don’t have much oil here in Europe it makes no sense to use a ressource we don’t have
We habe a little oil in Europe. We have absolutely no rare earth metals for batteries. Either way we have to import the stuff we need!
We do have many of them. We just have chosen not to mine them because that creates environmental and health issues and we can obtain them from elsewhere. When we mine them here, then mostly in remote places.
Cobalt: Top producer is DRC, Europe has a minor local production, mostly in Finnland Lithium: Abundant everywhere but difficult to extract, the EU doesn’t produce any significant quantities right now Nickel: Only 1.5% produced in EU, again mostly in Finnland Maganese: This is the only metal relevant for current batteries where there are no (known) significant deposits in central EU, some are around the black sea, industrial production is nonexistent.
Where the EU is already more present is in the refining of the raw ores. I think the current situation is, while not great, acceptable. As long as many different producers of the rare metals are available and the EU creates reserves of them (it does), it is fine to be dependent on imports for the moment.
we have shittons of rare earth metals, but we also don’t want to dig them up because of the health risks and environmental damage. we pay other people to tank that.
No, Europe’s car market won’t “collapse”. The companies which have spent the last 10-15 years planning & investing, and the next 10 years building & rolling out will make the transition and those that haven’t will go to the wall.
In fairness to Mercedes they are making some effort. They do offer electric versions for most of their range but they also suck compared to the competition by price & performance. Probably because they’re compromised by sharing a platform with ICE vehicles. This isn’t the fault of the technology, it’s the fault of Mercedes for drawing conclusions from their own bad decisions.
It is also Mercedes fault that they’re not knuckling down and solving this issue. Mercedes had better pull its finger out. Or it could whine, spread FUD, or waste money on tangents like “synthetic” fuels. If it chooses the latter, it WILL go bust and have to be bailed out by a competitor.
a car brand often driven by douchebags, has a douche as a ceo, makes sense the target audience.
No no, in a Europe the douches all drive BMW. Mercedes is only for the wealthy.
I guess we’ll just buy chinese cars, then.
If you dont want to change then die slowly. Others will take your place
The European car market won’t collapse, people will just switch to Chinese EVs who are cheaper to buy and run and have better options. I think this CEO just overestimates the value and brand appeal of his company. Especially young people associate Mercedes with an old people car.
Because only old people have the money to buy them… german car’s are WAY too expensive.
I buy an asian car with all extras for the price of a german base model, with nothing extra.
chinese evs run and have better options
Suuureeee. One look at chinese social media shows the opposite. Them suddenly bursting into flames, uncontrolled self driving, you being able to be locked inside them and, like Huawei, it survaling you 24/7. Yeaaah no i’ll gladly pass
Especially young people associate Mercedes with an old people car.
As a young person, first time i heared this.
US people have a completely different exposure to European brands.
I think most people associate Mercedes with “expensive” and their electric offerings are even more so. And they’re not particularly good EVs either cited for problems with reliability. I think that’s the real issue for the brand. The value proposition isn’t there, not even for people looking for a luxury car.
I think translated from CEO-speak, that means, “Chinese EV manufacturers are currently eating our lunch and dinner with their superior hardware and software and bundling and pricing and we need more than 10 years to get our act together.”
This has nothing to do with “Europe’s car market.” It’s all about the market share of European manufacturers. I love them to be strong and healthy, but not at the expense of the planet. Get your act together, you’ve wasted enough time already.
And not to forget how they fucked their costumers with the fake emission numbers!
They really think their costumers are stupid.
Now they get karma, as it should be.
wasn’t that WV?
WV
Wolksvagen
Audi BMW Mercedes-Benz Opel Porsche Seat Skoda VolkswagenThey all had their fair share in the scandal…
When I had my Sprinter van serviced, the dealer lent me one of their EVs so I could go grab lunch. That car was absolute dog shit. Everything about it felt cheap or half-assed. I am sorry but Mercedes EVs are completely outclassed by the Hyundai IONIQ line. At least BMW EVs still “feel” like BMWs.
I haven’t driven any EVs by BMW or Mercedes, but I assume that they’ve improved since they started making them. The new CLA does not look like it’s completely outclassed by the Hyundais: 800 Volt architecture, 320 kW DC charging, highly efficient, decently serviceable drivetrain, comes as an estate. The only advantage the Koreans have is price, and simulated gear shifts on the N models. But in return your car will be ethically produced in Europe, and not made by a company that refuses to withdraw from the Russian market.
I drove the Mercedes last December, so I am pretty sure it was a 2025 model. Aesthetics aside, my criticism is of the build itself. On the other hand, the BMW i4 and iX (also 2025 models) feel solid.
Which model Mercedes did you drive? I’ve heard good things about the iX, but haven’t driven it. Unfortunately I don’t have money for a car. But if I did, I’d be tempted to get a new CLA.
EQB but don’t bother. The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is far superior.
The reality check is that we need to be banning cars more than transitioning to electric ones. Build better infrastructure.
We can’t realistically do that. We could aim to lower their usage though.
The current Mercedes leadership is notoriously incompetent. They’d rather dig their own grave than get with the times. Funny that they are trying to cling to the combustion engine now right after they lost the Chinese EV market.
Crazy part is that Mercedes makes pretty good EVs - unlike some of the other German manufacturers which struggled a bit, and even though they seem to have the main platform worked out by now still have shitty software. Mercedes software is usable and rock solid - which I didn’t expect when we were buying one last year.
In the area I’m living in here in Finland EV Mercedes seems to be the most popular choice currently - the number of EVs is rising very fast, with pretty much all brands present, but a clear majority is Mercedes.
Isn’t the EQS not up to usually Mercedes quality and got cancelled not a full cycle in?
Yes, they basically rebootet their entire endeavors and will bring their new platform to market starting with the CLA EV. This will also be their first EV with 800V architecture.
Well we’ll see if their EVs are good
The “reality” is the problems with combustion engines and burning fossil fuels has been known, definitively, for 50 years or so, and these people, instead of planning for the future, ensured its destruction instead.
IMO he should “get on a bike”. Literally. I keep walking…
I don’t know what the law says, but prohibiting circulation of CO2 cars in 10 years is excessive, it would cause a crisis where people stop buying cars that are still being produced and no one would buy those used cars. Prohibiting the selling of new CO2 emitting cars in 10 years seems like a very good thing, and gives plenty of time for the industry to adapt.
… funnily enough, the EU plans the latter, while some car makers act as if it meant the former.
Banning sales of fossil fuel cars after 2035 is exactly the plan.
No. Banning sales of non-zero emission plans is the plan, it doesn’t specifically ban combustion engines. Combustion engine tech has stagnated like the last 4 decades, though, so it’s highly unlikely they’ll be zero emission within 10 years.
This is car manufacturers complaining that they haven’t made steps forward for 40 years and are now forced to switch to the technology that made them obsolete.
Combustion engine tech has stagnated like the last 4 decades,
This isn’t true at all, combustion engines have improved by huge amounts in terms of efficiency and reliability in that time.
Reliability? Absolutely.
And on paper, they made significant steps to reduce emissions in their engines. But that’s on paper, the VW scandal a few years ago has shown us how trustworthy those figures are.
Efficiency? Not really. Combustion engines used in cars still only average to about 30% effiency, which is a number only marginally higher than what I learned in school over 20 years ago. This is largely because car engines mostly dont operate within their peak-performance/efficiency windows.
I guess that a hydrogen fueled vehicle would be allowed then, which is terrible since basically all hydrogen is made from methane currently. 🙈
It would indeed be allowed, even though it’s quite inefficient, wherever it comes from. However it potentially allows for storage of its energy source, which is its main selling point compared to purely electrical systems with the current battery technologies (although those are evolving as well).
I want cars with combustion engines to hit that wall.
What’s the matter, big boy, can’t compete in the free market? Is your job too hard? Do you need more subsidies? Yeah? Tariffs on Chinese cars? Shall the politicians come over and fuck your wife as well?
In any sane economy, this CEO would be terminated immediately for endangering the company.
Delaying he switch to full EV production is actively hurting the required transformation process they should have started 10 years ago. Further delays will just make the impact so much worse, but that’s of no concern to the current shareholders, apparently.
